Comments on: What are the 10 most harmful jobs? https://80000hours.org/2015/08/what-are-the-10-most-harmful-jobs/ Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:31:17 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.2 By: Benjamin Todd https://80000hours.org/2015/08/what-are-the-10-most-harmful-jobs/#comment-402 Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:22:00 +0000 http://80000hours.org/?p=34640#comment-402 In reply to Michael Sesser.

The impact of the work itself is roughly neutral, but you can have a large positive impact through donations, so the net impact is positive.

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By: Michael Sesser https://80000hours.org/2015/08/what-are-the-10-most-harmful-jobs/#comment-399 Wed, 16 Dec 2015 20:00:00 +0000 http://80000hours.org/?p=34640#comment-399 Don’t you have quantitative trader (who donates) as one of your top careers, yet here you list financial arbitrage as neutral? How are they different?

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By: Aerys B. https://80000hours.org/2015/08/what-are-the-10-most-harmful-jobs/#comment-392 Sun, 13 Dec 2015 05:07:00 +0000 http://80000hours.org/?p=34640#comment-392 The paper you cite on mergers and acquisitions is not explained correctly. The one paper you cite claims that the firms *making acquisitions* lose value. But that doesn’t say anything about the firms *being acquired.* There’s necessarily a huge jump in the stock price of these firms when they are purchased. (You can’t buy a firm for less than its going price.) The evidence in the paper simply says that most of the value created through M&A accrues to the firm being purchased.

I think you should remove that item from your list.

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By: libor https://80000hours.org/2015/08/what-are-the-10-most-harmful-jobs/#comment-391 Sat, 12 Dec 2015 10:27:00 +0000 http://80000hours.org/?p=34640#comment-391 Pretty cool and unique job! A note on the presumptions : biodiversity is what matters for healthy nature ( not just animals) People in most of their/our clever instances are harmful- as Chernobyl nature park shows.

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By: John_Maxwell_IV https://80000hours.org/2015/08/what-are-the-10-most-harmful-jobs/#comment-371 Sun, 29 Nov 2015 06:55:00 +0000 http://80000hours.org/?p=34640#comment-371 Not all clickbait is created equal. I think there’s potentially an opportunity for EA clickbait journalists to create harmless clickbait on meaningless topics (say, celebrity gossip) that crowds out harmful clickbait on topics that might actually matter (say, AI risk).

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By: Jacob Eliosoff https://80000hours.org/2015/08/what-are-the-10-most-harmful-jobs/#comment-354 Thu, 26 Nov 2015 00:26:00 +0000 http://80000hours.org/?p=34640#comment-354 On “10. Tax minimisation for the super rich” and your footnote 3: Laffer curve aside, I would like to see some deeper digging into the net impact on society of taxation of the very rich. Of course not every billionaire spends his/her money the way Bill Gates does, but nor do they blow 100% of it on coke. To the extent that they invest it in economically productive businesses, or spend it on normal things that contribute to some worker’s paycheque, the money the rich *don’t* pay in taxes may have some net benefit to society. And this needs to be weighed against the proportion of tax revenues which even responsible governments either waste or misspend.

Forgive me if this sounds like a libertarian rant – it’s certainly plausible that in fact healthy govts do spend their tax revenues more beneficially for society than the rich do, and I’d be open to evidence for that. I really just mean it’s an important, non-obvious question that deserves to be studied, and to me the Piketty et al paper looks too broad to be conclusive: eg, not taking into account where the untaxed money of the rich goes.

As with so much in EA, I feel like here one consequence of tackling an important question that’s received too little thought is that our first attempts to answer it may be full of holes… That’s just how life is on the frontier! Hope to see many further iterations of this question.

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By: Joanna Flick https://80000hours.org/2015/08/what-are-the-10-most-harmful-jobs/#comment-268 Tue, 18 Aug 2015 02:45:00 +0000 http://80000hours.org/?p=34640#comment-268 I’m disinclined to think a specific fringe medicinal philosophy such as homeopathy is worth mentioning here, especially in the top ten harmful, as it’s mainly used in the US by the most educated and wealthy to alleviate minor ailments whose conventional treatments are either palliative only, palliative with minor or major side effects, or non-existent… There are sparse stories of overzealous, often religiously indoctrinated parents taking their kids to homeopaths instead of the hospital, but crazy people are crazy.

Here is the CDC report on the 38% of Americans who use any form of complementary/alternative medicine, only 1.8% of whom use homeopathy: https://nccih.nih.gov/…/2007/72_dpi_CHARTS/chart4.htm

But what are they using it for?
https://nccih.nih.gov/…/2007/72_dpi_CHARTS/chart6.htm

Assuming they’re mostly going to chiropracters for the backaches, meditating away the anxiety, and taking fish oil for cholesterol, they’re using it for the common cold.

So when we realize the main function of homeopathy today is to reduce the length of the common cold about a quarter of a day, assuming the placebo effect http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21747102 , we have a net of 50,000 days less suffering from colds per year among adults who we’ll also assume would not have otherwise taken Nyquil (conventional cold treatment).

In conclusion, I would argue that the net effect of responsibly administered homeopathy (i.e. referring critically sick people to a hospital or an M.D.) is on the level of fortune-telling, which is basically just a substitute for conventional psychological counseling and may be overall positive, despite the modest fees charged usually to people who can afford it.

Fraudulent medicine is a different story, and we can find that scattered everywhere throughout medicine and pharmaceuticals. When a company can massage the clinical data and sell a drug without a single warning on the bottle or the drug’s website that the drug has been scientifically proven to have a 0% chance of working for people over a certain BMI, or when a doctor prescribes a topical corticosteroid for a fungal infection without even looking at a scraping under a microscope because they don’t have the time to bother, I would say that’s just as fraudulent. And remembering that not two centuries ago, blood letting was the order of the day, it would be enlightening to see an analysis estimating total harm brought on by conventional medical practices.

And of course, if you had different, more accurate/relevant data to do your estimation of total harm on this one, I’d be interested to see it.

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By: Gareth Jones https://80000hours.org/2015/08/what-are-the-10-most-harmful-jobs/#comment-267 Mon, 17 Aug 2015 09:44:00 +0000 http://80000hours.org/?p=34640#comment-267 I was surprised to find ‘Patent trolls’ on this list. Whilst there’s clearly some abusive behaviour in the industry (e.g. extracting settlement fees by exploiting costs of defending patent infringement litigation), I’m not personally convinced the overall impact is significant enough to warrant a place on this list. Some quick thoughts: the $29b figure cited is disputed (http://www.iam-media.com/blog/Detail.aspx?g=454c1adc-52c3-4c2d-8981-e4716361f219); definitions of patent troll / NPE often vary and have a significant impact on any figures (http://info.articleonepartners.com/npe-vs-patent-troll-whats-the-distinction/ and http://www.iam-media.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=6DD3D0C1-D449-44FD-A244-34C14FEBBC0B); litigation costs might be lower if defendants were actually willing to deal with patent holders (http://patentlyo.com/patent/2015/02/litigation-plaintiffs-defendants.html); patents are intended to foster innovation (http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2014/05/08/reality-check-patents-foster-innovation-and-economic-activity/id=49452/).

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By: David Denkenberger https://80000hours.org/2015/08/what-are-the-10-most-harmful-jobs/#comment-266 Mon, 17 Aug 2015 01:57:00 +0000 http://80000hours.org/?p=34640#comment-266 This is interesting, but I would like to see actual numbers before you recommend people not to take these jobs. In this 80,000 hours post, the numbers showed that the direct harm was much smaller than the benefit of earning to give for global poverty: https://80000hours.org/2013/07/show-me-the-harm/ . Furthermore, if one values future generations, the argument would be even stronger for earning to give to global catastrophic risk reduction (unless one could argue these jobs actually negatively affect the far future significantly, which I doubt). Yes, one might be able to get a different job with similar pay that is less harmful, but if the direct harm is relatively small, I don’t think it should be a very large factor in the decision.

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By: Eliezer Yudkowsky https://80000hours.org/2015/08/what-are-the-10-most-harmful-jobs/#comment-265 Sat, 15 Aug 2015 17:03:00 +0000 http://80000hours.org/?p=34640#comment-265 In reply to robertwib.

I questioned the marginal social value of government revenue and whether loopholes do in fact cause real tax rates on the rich to equilibrate at a different point, not whether higher paper rates are so economically destructive as to result in lower government revenue.

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